************************************************

Loading mentions Retweet

************************************************
The following is a discussion I started on Linkedin groups “Wines & Spirits,” and "Slow Food." The discussion revolves around the announcement of a Canadian Chardonnay winning a world's best title. Chardonnay is planted worldwide and as a "transportable" grape can produce wines of equal or better quality to its Burgundy counterparts. The warming of the planet has been changing the map of good areas for some wines and better Chardonnays can originate in regions formerly too cold. The names of the contributors have been abbreviated and all comments posted in best chronology regardless of the group of origin.
************************************************

What if the world's best Chardonnay was from Canada?

What if it is? Chardonnay is a transportable grape and has the potential to produce wines as noble and great as the ones in its original home in Burgundy at the right locations worldwide. How do you think that would turn out? The colder the climate, the less ripen the fruit, the lower the alcohol, and the higher the acid. That is moving away from Napa stuff and getting closer to Burgundy. Will it have the potential to age as Burgundy does or is good for apertif and drinking young like California? I don't know much about the Canadian terrior and would like to know. (the original article at http://winebycush.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/worlds-best-chardonnay-from-canada/ ) What do you think of the Le Clos Jordanne Chardonnay 2005?

Loading mentions Retweet

************************************************
The following is a discussion I started on Linkedin groups “Wines & Spirits,” “Wine 2.0," "International Sommelier Guild" and “Wine Business Network.” The discussion revolves around the potential of wine-in-box to become established as screw-tops have. Wine-in-box has limited use today and may appear to have limited potential but remains the only packaging for wine that protects against oxygen for considerable time beyond the initial use. The low cost of the packaging, the friendliness toward the environment, and the overall lower cost of bulk wine make for an ideal means to market wine at lower cost in traditional venues. The names of the contributors have been abbreviated and all comments posted in best chronology regardless of the group of origin.
************************************************

Will Wine in the Box be the next screwtop?

The screwtops and platic corks have been around for over 10 years. Is the next step in saving wine and the environment to explore "Wine in the Box" and its potential to save glass? Here is the article and my 2-centshttp://winebycush.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/wine-in-box-looks-great-in-green/What do you think? How far can we go in replacing glass bottles with Wine in Box before sales interests overcome the urge to be green?

Posted 17 days ago | Delete discussion

Roger M.

More than likely. Packaging continues to evolve. New generations will not be so enamored with glass bottles. "Greener" approaches will dominate. Wine in a box has many positives going for it, storage and shipping costs head list. But the wine cellar will suffer the aesthetics ... unless some very smart people, come up with very cool boxes. My money is on change.

Posted 17 days ago | Reply Privately

Mary D.

Bag in Box or cubitainers have been around for ages. They went out of fashion in the 90's and are coming back in here in France. There are even some very decent wines flowing out of them.

Posted 17 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar d.

I agree about "aesthetics" and "going out of fashion" and hope for the best. Here in the California wine country the big changes make a lot of news. When screwtops were first becoming commonplace, Plumpjack released half of their Cab Sauv that year with cork and half with screwtops! A lot of people argued against screwtops because it was not charming! The whole business of taking the cork out and presenting to the guest at the table has a lot of class. The screwtop has none of that. Almost all cheaper wines now have plastic corks or screwtops. I hope for Box in the Wine to become more popular.

Posted 17 days ago | Delete comment

Thomas D.

Box wine with a liner doesn't appear to be plausable for long storage periods due to plasticizers in the liner and not due to sealing characteristics. With plastics getting more press for their leaching plasticizer into beverages and suspected hormone-like side effects on the human body, there probably needs to be a lot more study.
I always thought that glass was the more "green" of the products getting collected, since it can be easily recycled over a composite plastic film technology that can't be reused.

Posted 16 days ago | Reply Privately

Tim J.

I think you are all forgetting about wine in a can. I think that is the next evolution for today's young, energetic wine consumer on the go, at least in the USA

There is an incredible brand in Europe that offers a few varietals in a slim can, like Red Bull and apparently it flies off the shelves.

The millenials are raised on slim cans and don't mind drinking from them, so this could be a step inbetween
Wine in a can is portable, easy on the environment, quick to serve and perfect for dinner for one or two.

Posted 16 days ago | Reply Privately

Sabrina P.

Why should wine in the box be the next screwtop....I was done before.....Think 1990s

Americans still have trouble with screw-tops, with great New Zealand's and South African wines with screw tops....whats a girl to do.

Bags and cans are very taboo in America. Red bull is fine for the 20 somethings, but Young American wine drinkers then of them selves as educated and enlightened....

I for one know that a good wine is a good wine know matter how it is packaged!

Like it or lump it......wine last longer in "air tight" containers.

My suggestions...don't save it, sip, life is too short!

Posted 16 days ago | Reply Privately

Donald C.

I think this can be really big........give it a year or two.......

Posted 16 days ago | Reply Privately

Matthew D.

I don't see mid-high value wine being changed over to box in the near future.
Some good points were made in this thread regarding handling and storage of wine. Alot goes into the marketing and design of the bottles to assit in the sales and marketing aspect.
A box of wine is still viewed as cheap to the consumer.

Posted 16 days ago | Reply Privately

Michael D.

I cracked open a Yalumba 86 Riesling a couple of months ago. This was under screw cap and it was outstanding. I started putting my Rieslings under Stelvin screw caps back in 01 and I'll never forget the back lash I received from from my own friends and many of my peers in the wine industry. I was called names, I really can't say in this discussion group. I then proceeded to put my Chardonnay, Shiraz, Cab Sav and Grenache under screw cap since 04. Interesting how those friends now think it was the best thing I ever did and even more interesting that 99% of my industry peers are now under screw cap as well.

It has been wonderful to know that my wines are being enjoyed at dinners and tastings without the fear of having cork taint. So as a from a winemakers and consumers point of view, Long live the screw cap!

Boxes on the other hand, I'll leave that to the smart/clever marketers out there, my wines are staying in the bottle.

Cheers, Michael

Posted 15 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar d.

Cork can be a big problem: The industry average is you can have one corked bottle in each case. The only good thing is different consumers have different levels of ability to sense the corkiness in the wine. A whole lot of corky wine is drank everyday and the person does not know. Your wines have been saved. On the other hand, if you made them to age, the traditional cork would have been your only way of letting the wine breathe and age. Looks like you are fine. Do remember not everyone uses the new stuff because of the value. Many people are greedy and will try anything to make a quick buck (as we say here in US). Thanks for sharing

Posted 15 days ago | Delete comment

Alexei A.

@Roger - I think that your comment on people coming up with some innovative ideas for box packaging is right on... the direction is definitely going to be green and people always find new and creative ways to deliver this green packaging. Think about what the pouch did for kids' softdrinks... there will definitely be some smarty pants somewhere who will create a custom box which will be so simple, stylish and cost-effective that we will all wonder how we did without it.

Posted 14 days ago | Reply Privately

Patricia S.

Has anybody tried the new Herding Cats from South Africa?

Patricia

Posted 14 days ago | Reply Privately

Alexei A.

Not yet... what kind of wine is it?

Posted 13 days ago | Reply Privately

Lizbeth D.

Wine in a bag...catching up in college campuses

Posted 12 days ago | Reply Privately

Brittany R.

As a college student and wine drinker, I'm not ashamed to say I would buy box wine if it was a good wine. I hate opening a bottle, then leaving it in my fridge for weeks only to go bad. Give me a good alternative, and if I like the wine inside, I don't see the problem. Now, I don't really like the idea of wine in a can, I think you might get a "tinny" flavor that some people might be able to detect. I agree that the plastic might leach some kind of chemicals into the wine too, so I would probably try to stick with some form of glass containers. On the note of screwcaps, I love them, and I find that the wine in the screwcap bottles tastes fresher. My favorite german Riesling so far is a screwcap. Monchof Estate Steep Slope Reserve. Delicious. =)

Posted 12 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar D.

I found a short article about wine-in-box at parties in our local SF Chronicle this morning and in on my wine blog: (http://winebycush.wordpress.com/2009/06/21/have-a-picnic-with-these-wines/ ). Bag-in-box is only a method of delivery and does have flaws but our friendly wine industry scientists will go the extra mile to fix them. The industry has too much wine on hand and new methods of delivery not only aid the consumer and environment but also help them move their stock. I got an interesting idea in this regard (a French suggestion). The boxes can be put inside barrel stacks at a bar, for instance, and the guests see wine being poured off a barrel. That is just one clever idea to market the same basic wines at lower costs and every glass is 100% (bottle-)fresh unlike the wine poured from a wine glass bottle that gets air while sitting around at the bar. The bulk of wine-in-box in the market are for restaurant kitchen use and don't have to compete for taste with other box-wines. However, as better quality wines go in the box, it becomes a serious alternative for group consumptions. If one finds a small barrel that can take the box and make so the nozzle is out, that barrel will be so popular at a party. It works for reds for now and in Europe, it is common to fill a glass with ice cubes, half fill with wine and half soda or seven up. Bartenders in the US call it a wine cooler (with soda) and wine spritzer (with seven up). That competes with beer and appeals to everyone on a hot day out in the sun.

Posted 7 days ago | Delete comment

Loading mentions Retweet

************************************************
The following is a discussion I started on Linkedin groups “Wines & Spirits,” “Wine 2.0," "International Sommelier Guild" and “Wine Business Network.” The discussion revolves around the potential of wine-in-box to become established as screw-tops have. Wine-in-box has limited use today and may appear to have limited potential but remains the only packaging for wine that protects against oxygen for considerable time beyond the initial use. The low cost of the packaging, the friendliness toward the environment, and the overall lower cost of bulk wine make for an ideal means to market wine at lower cost in traditional venues. The names of the contributors have been abbreviated and all comments posted in best chronology regardless of the group of origin.
************************************************

Will Wine in Box be the next screwtop?

The screwtops and platic corks have been around for over 10 years. Is the next step in saving wine and the environment to explore "Wine in the Box" and its potential to save glass? Here is the article and my 2-centshttp://winebycush.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/wine-in-box-looks-great-in-green/What do you think? How far can we go in replacing glass bottles with Wine in Box before sales interests overcome the urge to be green?

Posted 17 days ago | Delete discussion
Sture L.

No Kooshyar, I certainly do not think so.

There will be niche markets though like there are in Europe and Australia where wine bars, restaurants, and supermarkets in certain countries have adopted the format. Some houeholds, where only a few brands will be consumed in quantity, may go for the packaging, and larger private parties or events. But, the majority of wine producers (most of them are small family operated companies) will never adopt the format. The expense is going to be too high for them for the limited volumes of the varietal products they make (machinery, bags, printed cartons, material storage, etc.). You don't have to save glass, It's basically sand and some minerals. Everybody should go green though thinking about the color contents for the glass. Screw caps are great. They will eventually take over for all of various sizes and beautiful shapes of glass bottles.

Posted 17 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar D.

Thank you Sture. That was very informative. I never thought of it in terms of small producers. Wine in Box has another advantage and that is air does not get in to oxidize the wine, once the consumption begins but does not end for a few days. Your argument is very logical and I learned a good deal. Thank you

Posted 17 days ago | Delete comment

Jennifer T.

My husband and I have wine consulting firm and specialize in alternative packaging, branding and marketing. We love bag-in-box and been working many smaller wineries to bring some higher quality BIB offerings to market. There are some great values available in grocery stores that can be found anywhere, but we encourage everyone to seek out some "boutique boxes" that are sold primarily in tasting rooms. We just wrote a piece called "The Boxed Wine Trail" in our blog Trellis2Trellis that will introduce readers to some wonderful new wines. Check us out athttp://www.marketingwine.com/blog .

Posted 16 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar d.

Thanks for the blog post. It was great and lots of good information. I saw a release note once (with photos) for a wine-in-box (fancy bag-in-box) with comparison prices versus bottles of the same wine. Restaurant kitchens use bag-in-box exclusively and that is one place it has worked. My biggest interest area is being green and wine not getting oxidized. Usually the wines poured at a bar are disproportionately in favor of house Chard, Pinot Noir and Cab Sauv. And the basic house wine is not a big deal to present but so many people drink it. I remember one place I worked we bought house wine by hundreds of cases at a time. Every glass of that wine can be perfect as a brand new bottle if served out of the wine-in-box but the problem is how to position them so they are appealing and not tacky. I guess one way can be nozzles similar to beer setup. I wish there was an easy established way. Thanks for your comment Jennifer

Posted 16 days ago | Delete comment

Rick S.

Cush, I thing all fighting varietals, Riunite types, Yellow Tail types and gallon wines should come in boxes (of 2 sizes):

Less space in the fridge or on the counter.

Less weight (& more environmental to ship).

Longer freshness as you point out, while requiring less sulfites (imagine the Sulfur ppm in those cheap mags & gallons?).

But it's not for better wines which are consumed young ... screwcaps are good there. And vin de gard should stay with cork.

In my opinion.

Posted 16 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar D.

Thank you Rick. That is the cleverest suggestion(s) I heard so far. That is a really good idea. I forgot how big the production size for some wines are and they just get poured off anyway. That makes great sense. Thank you

Posted 16 days ago | Delete comment

Eric J.

The argument for wine in a box or plastic bottle for the reduction of a carbon footprint makes sense, especially for volume production. However, we are a long way from the tipping point of acceptance because boxes (with "space bags") are still associated with Franzia and Peter Vella. The wine cube from Target was cool because it was from Target.

The heavy glass bottle inspires confidence (falsely sometimes) in the contents inside, and presents an image to your guests/friends that you have some taste. Consumers value that. For ageworthy wines and labels with a premium position the galss will never leave. I am admittedly traditional about some things, like glass bottles and newsprint, but there is value in alternative packaging.

Posted 16 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar D.

That is a great point. I have seen many wine and spirit products seeking market positions by designing the bottle in shapes and colors that sell. I guess box thing is not developed now. Who knows what can come up in the future if someone can make a buck.

Posted 13 days ago | Delete comment

Kevin G.

For bulk wines (1.5L and larger), I can see it becoming a more viable option to some degree, but as someone who worked in retail, I can promise you there is still great resistance and will probably remain so for at least a while. We even carried one brand in both 1.5L glass and 3L box and even with the box being a better value, it still lagged behind glass by a significant percentage.

I still see complete resistance to any sort of premium wine ever going into something besides glass and cork (or at least glass stoppers like Sineann uses on their reds).

There is also the resistance of American wineries to switch over to screw tops, so while they have garnered more acceptance, I'm still waiting on our own domestic industry to make that switch and quick!

Perhaps some clever marketing could help, like a multi-flavor box where the consumer can buy one or two (one for reds, one for whites) and have all their guest requests satisfied with a box that houses multiple varietals. It will require great marketing effort from the winery, distributor and willing retailers. Education of the public via blind tastings would also go a ways towards removing the negative perceptions the market generally has for screw tops.

Posted 12 days ago | Reply Privately

Lawrence L.

There's no way wine in a box becomes the next screwtop, at least for those who care about wine even a little bit. Screwtops make some sense -- there's a 4-5% slippage from corked bottles that screwtops effectively eliminate. Thank New Zealand for making it somewhat acceptable.

Wine in a box, however, is just plain amateur! I'm with Eric when he says glass bottle variations can be interesting and fun, but wine in a box just screams, "Too cheap to buy glass." Imagine bringing a box to a table for service. It just wouldn't happen.

Posted 9 days ago | Reply Privately

Loading mentions Retweet

************************************************
The following is a discussion I started on Linkedin groups "International Sommelier Guild," "National Restaurant Association" and "Wine Business Network." The discussion revolves around efforts to produce naturally or by other means wines of lower alcohol percentage and the advantages or disadvantages. The focus is on personal experience of wine drinkers and the attitude toward specific wines based on the alcohol. The names of commenters have been abbreviated and all responses presented chronologically regardless of which group.
************************************************

Is the alcohol level really an issue in the wine quality?

I personally love lower alcohol wines because I can keep drinking them without any side effects. But is the alcohol really that important an issue? French see a niche for low alcohol wines http://winebycush.wordpress.com/2009/06/06/french-export-low-alcohol-wines/ Do you suppose this may become a trend in a wine market overwhelmed with overproduction? Remember how Lambrusco won America over once with its simple fizzy 8.5% wine?

Posted 21 days ago | Delete discussion
Gary M.

I find that alcohol levels vary greatly with each wine I try. The general range is thirteen percent to fifteen percent. According to some wine makers the higher alcohol content sometimes works in concert with the tannins to round off the edges and bump up the fruit on the palate. I think that this works and is fairly prominent in a recent wine I tasted from the Adelaide Plains in Southern Australia... Raw Power Shiraz for example ( http://www.rawpowerwine.com/label.htm ) is a wine with higher alcohol content (14.9%) and it is truly a good wine for the weekend barbecue. Lots of fruit, smoky chocolate and very food friendly. A terrific value.

Yes the alcohol content is higher than one would want, but drink slower and savor each sip. At this price, you can smile all the way to the bank!

Posted 18 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar D.

That is a great example but is sort of a classic. Shiraz will usually have alc in that neighborhood and bbq is a great match to blend the alcohol in there. Would you say folks will be as likely to have that Shiraz as an aperitif wine? That is how fruity wines are consumed here in California. People drink them by the glass for that great fruit and chocolate without food having conversations and when they get out of the chair it hits them. What would you recommend to make them drink the Shiraz and come back to the bar or restaurant? I am out of ideas.

Posted 17 days ago | Delete comment

Eric J.

Alcohol was really only an issue during the college years when people would seek out higher contents as a point of machismo (for beer and liquor, becuase there wasn't much wine consumed then). At this point I am not too worried about the side effects, and wine can be well made regardless of alcohol content...Moscato d'Asti at 5.5% can be very enjoyable, as well as a low alcohol Lambrusco or Riesling.

Regarding the article, de-alcoholization makes sense if consumers demand it, but in a traditional wine culture we shouldn't be surprised that there would be resistance. The caveat is that those who refuse to change risk being left behind as consumer behavior and wine tastes change.

Posted 20 days ago | Reply Privately

Stephen P.

perhaps it is a quality issue, because high alcohol comes from very ripe grapes which in turn has implications for aroma, body, flavor and color.

I can hardly drink an Amarone, for example, or an Amador County Zin with 15% or more alcohol. I call these wines "shoe polish" for their density and extraction.

Give me a nice Moscato any day. Sadly, although I have had some delicious Lambruscos (Lambrusci?) consumers continue to associate the name with cheap fizzy stuff and won't buy it. Would be a perfect wine for summer...!

Posted 21 days ago | Reply Privately

Martin V.

To me it is not really an indication of quality, but an indication of place. The more sun, the higher the must weight and ,ergo, the higher the alcohol level.There seems to be a tendency to lower alcohol wines and some wineries have started reducing the alcohol content of their wines by using the spinning cone technique. I am not a proponent of manipulating the wine, as it always will result in a product of lesser quality in my opinion.There are many options to choose wines from areas where the wines automatically yield lower alcohol content. I agree with Mr.Plunkett about the Lambrusco- some excellent products are available which do not taste like grape juice with alcohol.

Posted 21 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar D.

Alcohol is one of the four (alcohol, acid, tannin, and fruit) necessities for the structure of the wine to age. That makes it an integral part of the wine but besides aging how much does it have to do with quality is the question for me. Low alcohol can be a problem for the wine and some wines i.e. Amarone can actually point to the alcohol as a strength but Zin is out of control and no fool would boast its alcohol. I think high alcohol goes beyond that however. If alcohol is high, the acid is low which affects aging but also makes the wine a poor candidate for matching with food. If the spinning cone technique is used and the inherent alcohol is lowered, what becomes of the acid? I assume the acid stays low as was before the technique. The wine may be more palatable now but is the wine of higher quality if it was made with low alcohol originally? I like to know more. Many sommeliers (at least in SF) are hostile to California wine because of the high alcohol issue and I think the topic is worth exploring.

Posted 20 days ago | Delete comment

Lawrence F.

I'd agree that high alcohol is a problem when the wine isn't balanced against the other important characterstics -- obviously acidity and tannins. I picked up a $10 bottle of Ipsus the other day at Trader Joe's, from the previously unknown (to me) Passito della Pantelleria DOCG. It was in the sweet wine section, which my wife is partial to, so we thought why not. It's 15% alcohol and tasted like someone mixed Everclear and grape concentrate. Totally unbalanced, but worth trying just for the experience.

I can see what they were aiming for -- something like a Recioto, especially given the name of the DOCG -- but they missed the mark. On the other hand, I've got a nice selection of 10 year tawny ports that are also pushing 15% alcohol and they were just great. American consumers like strong, big bodied, full alcohol wines, but those of us willing to try a lower alcohol can be rewarded with a nice treat that doesn't get you too wasted.

Posted 20 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar D.

I agree with both points. And the American consumers do like the reds fruity and high in alcohol while the whites are served too cold. However, here in SF the local sommeliers are fairly hostile to high alcohol wines!!! Traditionally, this area is one of the largest sales markets for California fine (expensive) wines and the above trends had held strong. However, the market has changed greatly. Nowadays, almost any restaurant has a sommelier (with training or self-trained) and the more they have to compete with each other on the floor and in the media, the pickier they get. High alcohol is a huge no-no because it means lower acid which is food friendly. The rational is not as important as the trends: Biodynamic, sustainable, green, Earth-friendly, and low alcohol. But is it a bond fide quality issue or just a local fad I keep pondering.

Posted 19 days ago | Delete comment

Carolyn M.

I think that the issue is not so much high alcohol but lack of balance in a wine that many people object to in a wine. I think that great wines and winemaking are all about finding that balance

between alcohol and acid, oak and ripenss with as little manipulation as possible.

Posted 17 days ago | Reply Privately

Florent G.

Wine grower know that to increase the quality of a wine (tannin, polyphenols, structure) we've got to increase the leaves surface and to reduce the number of grapes per stoke (That's what we call green harvest). It means we automatically increase the quantity of sugar (alcohol) and over 14° vinification is more and more difficult. That's the reason why you can find bad wines over 14°.
But I agree with Carolyn, it's a matter of balance, and you shouldn't feel alcohol in a good wine.
But balance is not the same for everyone and it's hard to make rules with wine tasting.

Posted 17 days ago | Reply Privately

Sandra R.

Quality? No, no, no! Lower alcohol wines can be made with just as good of quality as higher -- if not better quality. Quality is subjective to a degree. Most consumers world-wide prefer lower alcohol, and higher residual sugar wines. It is the wine industry (of which I am a part) and the Robert Parker's of the world that have intimidated the consumer into the higher alcohol "bigger" wines as more desirable. Not true! Lots of research proves it.

Posted 17 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar D.

Thank you Sandra. That is one of the best points I got so far. You are saying wine evaluators created a trend (bias) toward whatever they like and we have to fight over our taste versus their decrees. That is a great point to know. I think I have to point something out. Parker as far as I remember does not like "fruit bombs" as we call them here in California. When it is warm, as in California, the grapes can grow to have lots of sugar (and they like them riper here) which also means more and more fruit. That sugar becomes alcohol. Some of Parker's famous picks are in that category for sure but I think he dislikes green grass Cabs and our "fruit bombs." But your point is great. Thank you

Posted 17 days ago | Delete comment

Ed. T

"Quality" probably needs to be defined further. In some areas of the world, it is strictly defined in order to achieve certain AOC or other designations. But, as Sandra pointed out, elsewhere, it is subjective and probably is defined by the consumer, the critic, the winegrower, or the winemaker which may not necessarily align. To me, I first thought of balance as my answer to this question as Florent described above as well as the aging needs you, Kooshyar, pointed out. Big alcohol, to me, without fruit, flavor and acid to balance it out means lesser quality to me -- I, as a consumer would not like it. The same goes for lower end of the spectrum too. So, what do mean by quality exactly?

Posted 17 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar D.

I am not sure I know what quality is. The term is defined beyond its dictionary meaning by many to fit their ends. High alcohol in wine is deemed a big issue by many sommeliers and wine directors (with training based on Old World preferences) and those who reject the high alcohol wine ( fruit or not) point to alcohol as a problem lowering the quality of wine. The question of what is really a "quality" issue is what is on hand. I don't have the answer because it is subjective as everyone so far has stated.

Posted 17 days ago | Delete comment

Ian J.

Your question needs to be defined better. Ed is correct that in certain cases alcohol is a quality issue based on requirements for a given appellation. This can also be applied to sugar in the grapes at harvest as this is a way of measuring potential alcohol in a wine. The German quality system is based entirely upon this, so alcohol again is an indication of quality in this case. Your question needs to also specifically include or exclude fortification as this extends the complexity of the question. Let's face it there are fortified wines at 19% alc. at both ends of the quality spectrum. And alcohol plays no part in the quality of the wine. If you are talking about dry wines only, then it is a matter of balance. If you are looking for a particular answer that supports the production of low alcohol wines that are dry then I think we all know the answer to that. Don't we?

Posted 16 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar d.

Thank you Ian. Unfortunatley, a lot of times when attempting to figure something out, the question can be ambiguous itself. I do think the article included with the blog post I mentioned does narrow it down to specific wine categories. Fortified wines originally and historically were fortified so they can last the trip on the ship to the destination markets. They became a style and lowering the alcohol will change the style so I think that is appreciated by drinking 2oz to 3oz at a time versus 5oz to 6oz for the wines we are looking at here. Also, I am not an expert on German wine system but know enough about it to point a couple of things out: 1. naming the classification system after quality "Qualitat" does not mean the system is based on quality. The Italian DOC and DOCG systems regulate many things but are NO guarantee of quality. Germany is too far North and thus less sun. This means less time for grapes to ripen before harvest and less sugar. They have almost no RED wines because of this and the sugar amount is treasured but I don't think automatically translates into quality by being higher or lower. Austria was the only country that used the German system and they abandoned it in favor of a French style system a few years back. There is nothing wrong with the system and as you mentioned it moves in the right direction of appreciating whatever adds quality to the wine but I don't think it goes far enough to make alcohol level an indicator of quality.

Posted 16 days ago | Delete comment

Ian J.

Kooshyar. You are absolutely right about the German system. When a student is asked in a structured blind tasting to comment on quality, what the examiner is looking for are both the appellation as it relates to "quality" and a thorough description of the empirical quality as perceived by the taster. To confuse the subject of quality further, it is most certainly subjective between distinct taster groups. A novice taster may have a high quality opinion of a commercial quality wine, whereas an experienced taster is able to deduce it's commercial quality. Appellation systems unfortunately do not absolutely define quality. They are merely a guide to quality under the best circumstances.
Alcohol is sometimes indicative of quality while at others it is not. Seeking an absolute answer in the world of wine is not very often fruitful. I guess that's why it's so interesting.

Posted 13 days ago | Reply Privately

Mark G.

As others have already put, I would agree that the alcohol content is most definitely a quality issue. Clearly there is an expectation on the part of the customer that it is wine so it must have alcohol, and it should be balanced with other flavours - hence quality expectation. And it is most definitely subjective. From a technical point of view, there's some good science behind the knowledge that increasing alcohol content does suppress the activity of some aroma and flavour compounds in wine, particularly in aromatic varieties. On the vineyard side, it is often believed that flavours increase with the sugars during ripening - hence sometimes grapes are left on the vine longer to try to get more flavour. But this is not always the case and can affected by many factors. Sometimes the end result can be badly unbalanced wines with extremely high levels of alcohol.
Technicalities aside, personally, I prefer to drink wines with lower alcohol, but I still want good flavour - that's my quality expectation.

Mark Gishen, Gishen Consulting.

Posted 12 days ago | Reply Privately

Kooshyar d.

I agree with last two comments fully and think alcohol definitely "relates" to quality systematically but whether or not can be viewed as a measure of quality I am still out there.

Posted 10 days ago | Delete comment

Kate L.

When thinking about high alcohol levels in wine, it's important to consider the effects of climate change on wines from most major growing regions. Pancho Campo MW, has done a ton on research on this:

http://www.thewineacademy.com/web/eng/noticia01.php?id=175

I too prefer lower alcohol wine for the most part, though I am not overly sensitive to alcohol on the palate (since drink bourbon straight, from time to time!). I just prefer a light, refreshing wine most of the time and that usually is accompanied by low alcohol.

Trend or consequence?

Posted 7 days ago | Reply Privately

Loading mentions Retweet

************************************************

Loading mentions Retweet